Monday, August 22, 2005

Once Saved, Always Saved?

Please explain this passage of Scripture:

Hebrews 6:1-8
1 So let us stop going over the basics of Christianity[a] again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don't need to start all over again with the importance of turning away from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. 2You don't need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.
4For it is impossible to restore to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come-- 6and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people to repentance again because they are nailing the Son of God to the cross again by rejecting him, holding him up to public shame.
7When the ground soaks up the rain that falls on it and bears a good crop for the farmer, it has the blessing of God. 8But if a field bears thistles and thorns, it is useless. The farmer will condemn that field and burn it. (NLT)

Hmmmm...

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

I've thought about that myself a lot...especially verses 29 and 30, where it talks about trampling the blood of Christ and having no salvation from sins left.

But I do know that the bible also says that love covers over a multitude of sins and the parable of the prodigal son tells us that when we take our inheritance and squander it in the worldly living...so long as we come back our father will welcome us with open arms. Though it does say that all of his property belonged to the son that never left, so maybe we don't have as much of a place in the kingdom of God.

I for one believe that God will always love us and will never forsake us so long as we love Him and continue to surrender the areas in our life that allow Satan to have authority in his footholds.

-Ardell

Anonymous said...

I always wondered what it meant to experience the good things of heaven and share in the Holy Spririt, taste the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come.

This verse could take on many different tones. At one time in my life I wondered if the author was referring to heavenly beings, fallen angels, etc. But the reference to "such people" always worked against that theory.

It could point to condemnation. Indicating that once a Christian, if you backslide, there is no hope for your redemption. This doesn't set well with me, either. Mostly because it goes against God's character as revealed in scripture.

It could also point to hope. What if it is not until we have experienced the above mentioned things that we are able to truly reject Christ. If all people, at some point, share in the Holy Spirit, etc., maybe their doom is not sealed until after that.

Ugh! I am having a hard time putting this into words today! I guess I am wondering if it could be used to address the question "What about those who have never heard of Christ? Can they be saved?"

If this scripture points to our responsibility to accept Christ after we have been enlightened. Maybe they are not condemned until after they have been enlightened.

Just my scrambled thoughts.

Anonymous said...

"If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance." This seems to emphasize what happens in the falling away process.

Rom. 6:23 states that the wages of sin is death. This is a law that was set in place from the time of adam.
God does bestowe grace to us but, turning our back on God will always equall death in some form.

Anonymous said...

You're taking romans 6:23 out of context. That death is the death those who don't know Jesus will face.

Anonymous said...

Sin one way or another leads to spiritual and physical death. Saved or not saved, if you do not repent, you will not be forgiven. What I mean is with out admitting your "wrong" and asking for forgiveness, you remain in sin...

With that being said, I think God is faithful and Just to forgive everyone, but it is a matter of the Heart...

Anonymous said...

Hmmm, tough scripture passage....

It all has to do with the STATE of being (in sin). See the Bible clearly says there is one unforgivable sin. That's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. See the Holy Spirit tells our mind/spirit/soul/conscious that Jesus Christ is Lord. So people who do not declare this/reject this in their heart/conscious/spirit (whatever it is in the CORE of us), then they are NOT forgiven (they can't BE forgiven if they don't acknoledge God--No one TO forgive them) and miss out on Heaven and find themselves separated from God--They are in Hell.

Okay, so this passage is about the state of us internally...If we deny Christ--turn actively/consciously reject/turn away from Christ we are blaspheming the Holy Spirit--the one unforgivable sin and destined by our choice to Hell.

Any and all true repentance and admission that Christ is Lord (etc) then we no longer blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Hence we are NOT in the STATE of blasphemy....

Does that make sense?

Anonymous said...

Truth Seeker:

I do not mean this to offend anyone, and maybe my perception of this is wrong; but once you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, you have already committed the unforgiveable sin, and it does not matter if you ask for forgiveness, the unforgiveable sin was already committed.

Grieving the Holy Spirit, and Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit are two different things. We grieve the Holy Spirit when we sin. To Blaspheme, is we "speak against the Holy Spirit" even though we know God's power, and His works.

I think Blasphemy is willfull and intentional. In other words, you know first hand what God can do, but yet you speak of God in an irreverent, and impious manner.

I think if you have a conviction, or worry of commiting this sin, you have not committed it. Blasphemy also deals with the hardness of one's heart. To really blaspheme the Holy Spirit, one's heart is hardened towards the Holy Spirit. Which may be what this scripture may be reffering to... Meaning, taking forgranted what God has done for them, intentionally turning away, and (figure of speech) slapping God in the face.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, but we aren't all perfect when we come to God. We will fall and make mistakes. At that instant we are turning our backs on God, conciously and actively. Theres no way to do it unconsiously or without action. According to your explanation, we all committed the unforgivable sin.

Anonymous said...

No, I do not agree, like I stated, we grieve the Holy Spirit when we sin. We blaspheme the Holy Spirit when we "speak against" Him (downsize, mock and ridiculing)

Anonymous said...

thats interesting that you should bring that point up ..about blaspheming the holy spirit. there is a difference mt 12:31-32/eph 4:30.
blaspheming seems to attack H.Spirits character whereas when we grieve him, the focus is on us.

I think heb 6 was referring to the idea of restoring to repentance those who have been enlightened. the title implies that our salvation is based on our 'turning away'. but is it?

Anonymous said...

Cool stuff...Anonymous, I don't think I explained this clearly in my haste to comment....See if the person sought forgiveness then he/she never really committed the unforgivable sin....So I agree with youThose people going/gone to Hell are those who deny Christ. The Holy Spirit speaks to us about Christ, urges us toward Christ. Hence the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit IS to deny Christ.

There is no other reason people go to Hell. All of their sins are forgiven...The unforgivable sin is the conscious and final denial of the Holy Spirit's claim and call for Christ's Lordship over our lives...

Here are two articles regarding the Blaspemy of the Holy Sirit...
The second article is much longer and goes into the passage of scripture that is at the start of this whole discussion...

Excerpt from "The Unforgivable Sin" by Hank Hanegraaff
The date was October 21, 1962. I sat impatiently in my pew as the pastor droned on endlessly about the Pharisees and their encounters with Christ. Just when I thought he was finally finished, he began telling the story of Christ’s encounter with a demon possessed man. He pointed out that the Pharisees, who were eye-witnesses of the encounter, attributed Christ’s exorcism to Beelzebub, the prince of demons. Christ’s comeback was captivating to me, “I tell you the truth,” He said, “every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” (Matt. 12:31-32).

Today as I write I cannot recall the exact thoughts that flashed through my mind at that moment. But one memory remains forever etched upon the canvas of my consciousness: I like the Pharisees of Christ’s time had committed the unforgivable sin. My horror at this sudden realization was so traumatic that I literally felt sick. Although my anxiety subsided somewhat after Sunday’s service, the following day my fears flooded back in full force.

I listened anxiously to news reports of Nikita Khrushchev’s secret installation of nuclear warheads in Cuba. My terror continued to grow as I heard that John F. Kennedy had thrown down the gauntlet to the Soviets by imposing a naval blockade. Even at my age I understood that as the Cuban Missile Crisis played itself out, the world was poised precariously on the precipice of nuclear disaster.

In the ensuing hours I was virtually paralyzed by my fear. When my father returned from work, he found me lying in bed, agonizing over my impending physical and spiritual doom. “Dad,” I stammered when he entered the bedroom, “I’ve committed the unforgivable sin... the world is coming to an end... and I’m headed for hell!”

To my utter astonishment he simply smiled. To this day I can still hear his words: “If you are truly concerned, you have not committed the unforgivable sin.”

The fear I experienced in 1962 is the same fear that prompts one of the questions I am asked most frequently today on the Bible Answer Man broadcast: “How can I know for sure that I have not committed the unforgivable sin?”

First let me point out that my response to each and every caller is exactly the same as what my father told me: “If you are truly concerned, you have not committed the unforgivable sin.” Rather than demonstrating concern, those who actually commit the unpardonable sin are cavalier about Christ and Christianity. In other words, they have no interest in His forgiveness.

The Pharisees mentioned by Matthew militantly hated Christ and attributed His miracles to Beelzebub, the prince of demons. Unlike those who are afraid they have committed the unforgivable sin, the Pharisees were totally unconcerned about Christ’s forgiveness. Instead, with premeditation and persistence, they willfully blasphemed the Holy Spirit’s testimony that Christ was the Son of the living God.

Passages like Matthew 12:22-37, Mark 3:20-30, and Luke 12:10 all have one thing in common. They consistently portray people who knowingly persist in rejecting Christ’s messianic mission despite His miracles and the ministering power of the Holy Spirit. From a historical perspective it is important to note that the Pharisees had firsthand knowledge of Christ’s miracle working power. In addition, they knew the scriptures and thus understood intellectually that Christ was the fulfillment of messianic prophecy. Therefore, their rejection of Christ epitomized the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Furthermore, let me point out that those who have committed the unpardonable sin have no godly regret. As Paul emphasizes in the book of Romans, they not only continue in their evil ways but approve of others who do so as well (Rom 1:32). Conversely, “godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation” (2 Cor. 7:10). Thus, as with the Apostle Peter, sorrow for sin and the desire for Christ’s forgiveness is proof positive that you have not rejected the Savior of your soul. Three times Peter denied his Lord with vile oaths. Yet Christ forgave him.

Finally, the Bible consistently teaches that those who spend eternity separated from God do so because they willingly, knowingly, and continuously reject the gospel. John refers to this as the “sin unto death” (1 John 5:16) in the sense that those who refuse forgiveness through Christ will spend eternity separated from His love and grace.

It is not enough to know intellectually that Jesus Christ is the savior. “Even the demons believe that — and shudder” (James 2:19). To that knowledge must be added agreement and trust. If you are sick, you might have the knowledge that a particular medicine might cure you. You might even agree it has cured thousands of others suffering from the same sickness. However, until you personally receive it, you are not trusting it to cure you. In the same way, to receive Jesus Christ as the living Lord of your life, it is imperative not only that you know about Him and agree He is the Savior of the world, but that you personally place your trust in Him alone.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
© Copyright 2003 by John Baskette
For a good year and a half after I first became a Christian, I was very worried about the issue of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I thought I might have committed this sin and was therefore eternally lost. I thought that I was like Esau who sold his birthright for one morsel of meat and who, "when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears" (Heb. 12:17). [1]

I also once knew a teenager who, in an attempt to free himself from the moral strictures to which he felt bound, deliberately tried to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Later, after he repented and turned again to the Lord, he deeply regretted his attempt and feared that he, too, was one of those sons of perdition who desired repentance, but whom the Lord could never forgive.

No Christians that I knew at the time (or since for that matter) believed that anyone still living could be in this situation. The belief was that "him that cometh to me (Jesus) I will in no wise cast out." This conclusion I think was correct, but many accompanying arguments were not convincing to me at the time. These other arguments were along the lines of re-defining blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as being "final rejection of Christ" and assertions that once you are saved, you are always saved so it is impossible for a Christian to commit this sin. Since these other arguments were not convincing to me, I had a difficult time dealing with this fear.

I think that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was just what it says in the text of Mark 3:28-29: "I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." Jesus said this in response to the Pharisees, who had called the Holy Spirit by whom Jesus cast out demons an unclean spirit.

My deliverance from this terrible doubt came about through a better understanding of repentance and faith. It seems clear to me now that no one can repent and believe in Christ apart from the working of God. "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him" (John 6:44), and "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away" (John 6:37). If my friend or I had actually committed an unpardonable sin, then the Father would not have drawn us to repentance and faith in Christ. We can conclude this because we know that Jesus will not cast out anyone who comes to Him. He would have to cast us out if we were guilty of an unpardonable sin.

Jesus tells us that it is the ministry of the Holy Spirit to draw us to Christ and bring us to repentance: "When he [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned" (John 16:8-11). When we are truly sorry for our sin and desire to be forgiven by God, we are repenting. However we get to a place where we are repenting[2], our repentance is, in itself, an evidence of the presence and ministry of the Holy Spirit - it is not an evidence of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. The test is not: are you sinning and feeling rejected by God? The test is whether you want to be forgiven. If you commit an unpardonable sin, you have utterly and completely rejected the ministry of the Holy Spirit, and you can't care about it - you will have a complete disdain and revulsion to the things of the gospel. If you are worried that you are beyond God's grace, if you fear God's judgment, if you desire to be saved, the Holy Spirit is still working in you and you cannot have utterly and completely rejected God or have blasphemed the Holy Spirit

This is what is taught in Hebrews: "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance" (6:4-6a). Those spoken of here have not necessarily blasphemed the Holy Spirit, but they have knowingly rejected the gifts and power of God. Note that the passage does not say that these individuals can try to repent, but cannot be saved. It says that it is not possible for us to renew them to repentance at all. The same can be said of any individual who blasphemes the Holy Spirit. Their sin is unforgivable; therefore they cannot repent and believe, period. They cannot experience sorrow, regret, fear, worry, or panic that they are beyond God's forgiveness.

What about my friend who says he really did it? He repented; therefore he could not really have done it.

Mark 3:29 says, "whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin" because they said, "He has an evil spirit" (30). It would seem that one who "will never be forgiven" is eternally damned, not in danger of eternal damnation. I interpret the passage to mean that while the Pharisees did call the spirit in Christ unclean, it is possible that they did not actually blaspheme the Holy Spirit. They were in danger of doing so, but they may not have recognized that it was the Holy Spirit who was in Christ.

I conclude from these passages that only someone who intentionally and willfully blasphemes the Holy Spirit actually commits an unpardonable sin. Furthermore, a person who commits this sin will not ever repent and come to Christ. A person who has repented and come to Christ necessarily has not committed this sin. I conclude that my friend who actually said the words did not really commit this sin - God knowing his heart also knows he did not mean it.

Also, the Heb. 12:17 passage does not describe someone who is seeking to repent but cannot because he is rejected. Esau was not seeking repentance at all. He was seeking his lost birthright. The earlier verses read, "Make every effort to live in peace with all men. . . . and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights . . . ." The bitter root is an allusion to Deut. 29:18 which speaks of those who turn from God and worship idols. It is not the case that he was trying to repentant and restore his relationship with God, but God would have nothing to do with him.

That he did not find any place of repentance means that he was not able to get his father or God to "repent" and restore his birthright. He was not able to do so because he had rejected God's promise given by way of the birthright to Jacob - i.e. he missed the "grace" of God. No amount of striving, seeking, even with tears, will bring about salvation apart from God's promise. [3]

Is it impossible for a Christian to blaspheme the Holy Spirit? My belief is one's outward profession and appearance offer us no guarantees. If Judas was able to perform miracles and if the once enlightened of Hebrews chapter six can fall away and never repent again, then it would seem that just about any one could one-day fall away and (perhaps) blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

The apostle Paul exhorts, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test?" Paul says that we can examine ourselves and recognize with some level of assurance that Christ is in us, but he does seem to allow that one can become "reprobate."

Was such a person never really "saved," or was the person really saved but lost it through apostasy? Was such a person really one of the "elect?" This is a different issue than what I have addressed. I have asked, "Can someone desire to be a Christian and repent of sin, but still be damned because of a sin God cannot forgive?" The answer to that question is "No."

Joe Hayes said...

Yeah - this is exactly the sort of passage that makes me hope the bible isn't ALL inspired.

V4-5 seem to imply quite the spiritual giant. So, the argument could be made that you're committing the sin of pride by believing that you qualify for this. ;-)